Piranha Jaws | The Story of Jay Pierson
I will say that sucking piranha jaws isn’t for everyone. Okay. Got it. If it can’t be, if it can’t be, Hey, if you can’t,
If you can’t suck it by the
Yes. Yeah. And vice versa. That makes sense. It does make sense.
Box nation. Welcome to episode
Number eight. It’s going to be a good one.
[inaudible] yes, yes. And yes, we are back in the studio today and I am Jordan. I have my brother, my, my most handsome brother with me today. How are you doing ladies? His name is NACE and we have Mr. Donnie freaking flowers all the way in Florida. How are you doing?
And ladies, you guys are stupid.
Okay. Still my life today, guys. We have a great guest. You guys ready for this? On today’s podcast? We have the unbelievably handsome, most remarkably intelligent. The man, the myth, the legend founder of Pearson. Workholding ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the show, Mr. Jay [inaudible].
Yeah, you guys is awesome to join up box.
Yeah. Hey Jay. Uh, you don’t have to hurt my feelings if you don’t want to, but you can, have you ever listened to the show yet?
I have. Oh, you have? Yup. Which episode did you listen to? Uh, I listened to the one with a bomb.
A bomb 79. Eight. Yeah. So that was a special one because he actually got, yeah, he got to come here and hang out with this in the new studio. So I mean that, that guy is just phenomenal. He’s a great guy.
Yeah. Yeah. And I watched the whole, his whole tour of your shop. Cause I thought you did for years. So I just thought, Oh, I finally get to take a peek under the skirt. So yeah, it
Was, was it sexy?
It was, you know, jail,
Something different. Cause when I picked up the skirt last time, it was very hairy.
That’s what she said. And what’s wrong with that?
Well, you know, I guess, yeah. I don’t know. Uh, Jay, so we’re, we’re super excited to have you on the podcast today. I will tell you, uh, just, uh, I don’t know, a couple of weeks back, um, I posted something of maybe a picture of some piranha jaws products that we’d just got from you because it was our very first products that we bought from Pearson workholding and you sent me a little, a little DM. You kind of slid into my DM and you said, Hey, perfect. Uh, we just did like a fixture Friday and you guys did a little kind of little shout out kind of, of some of our promised strips. And so today my mission was defined that fixture Friday video, and I kinda got stuck in the rabbit hole. So I think I watched all of your YouTube videos. Um, and it was great, man. Um, I’ve always known one thing about you that you’re highly intelligent and you’re very handsome.
Oh, thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Both are debatable, but I’ll take the compliment. Yeah. So yeah.
Hey Jay, would you tell us in our listeners a little bit about your background and how Pearson workholding started?
Yeah, so I’m pretty, pretty sure. I have a hydraulic fluid and coolant in my blood. I grew up in a shop, uh, not a machine shop. It was a precision, uh, sheet metal shop where you look at like computer enclosures. My dad ran that shop, uh, his company for 30 years. And I grew up knowing I wanted nothing to do with his business because he was always just, he was, he was working all the time, you know, and complaining about purchasing agents and landlords. And I just thought, that’s terrible. Why would anyone want to do that? You know? Yeah. And then, uh, you know, I, I found myself in my early twenties wanting to be a rock star musician, but I gave myself a time limit. I said, Hey, if I’m, if I hit 22 and I’m not, if this band I’m playing with is not signed, I’m done. I’m thrown in the towel. So
Let me stop you right there. So me and my brother were in a, I don’t know, a boy band, uh, something band. Yeah, yeah. Something band. So what instrument do you play?
They slap in the face. You know what I think the hardest beauty.
Everybody’s wondering, um, how big is basis? Does he have his nipples pierced? Oh no, I didn’t think that was the question. I don’t think anyone’s thinking that.
Sorry. That was just nice. Well, Hey Jason,
Uh, I don’t know if you guys felt this way, but the hardest people to find that were like mentally stable were bass players and drummers kick drum drummers,
Man, I can’t argue with that. I gotta be honest with you. I mean, drummers. Yeah. I’ll stop there. I’m not the rant about drummers, but no. So my band is my best friend, so yeah,
You’re both. You’re both are, uh, you know, you’re the rhythm guys. So you drive hand in hand. I mean, if you don’t have a drummer, you don’t have a rhythm, you don’t have the bass, you don’t have rhythms
Pretty much. And you know, I’ve always said like, uh, basis drums on a string, essentially. You got a lock in what came first, the base
Of the drums. Did you have a five string or a six string?
I play a five string. Nice. He’s a real basis. Yeah.
Did you wait, wait, did you use a pick or did you use your finger?
Oh, fingers. Okay. So, so, so what style of
Music did you guys play jazz?
Oh man, we played, um, well we, we, we knew that grunge, this was in the late nineties. So we grew up in like the, you know, the, the grunge era. Yeah.
Yeah. Did, did you have long hair? I did not. I can’t grow long.
Knocked down, so yeah, it doesn’t look good. Um, yeah, but then no, we, we came out and it’s like rock alternative. Like we were, um, yeah, we played with some, some notable bands in our, in our area. Cause I’m like 30 minutes from Hollywood. We get in Hollywood a lot plead shows with incubus. Uh, wow. Uh, who was that other band? Um, uh, coal chamber. They were like kind of a hard rock band, um, uh, who was stank. We played a show with them. So, you know, it was like, it’s like we see all of them getting signed. We’re like, we’re next? And then, you know, like I’m 22 and we’re still not signed. And I’m like, well, I always liked drafting in high school. Maybe I should go into manufacturing. So
Speaking of sucking, let’s talk about the smart vac three I’m joking. That was the best segue I’ve heard. Hey, so, so did you ever get on the Mike or what?
No. No. I know no one would want that.
Okay. Gotcha. Very that segue wasn’t in our show notes, my friend that wasn’t in our show notes, it just felt right. So, um, so I think we can,
I think we can all agree. Um, at least from my standpoint, I never got to use unfortunately, any sort of Pearson products because our just our work never went that route. But I learned about Jay from this article, it was sort of, um, our introduction into like lean manufacturing. And I, first thing I typed in was lean manufacturing and Pearson work holdings website pops up and it’s an article on, um, the eight wastes of lean. And I think that if anyone is unfair, unsure or curious about what lean manufacturing is, that is a, excellent place to start. Um, there’s so much knowledge in this.
So, so Jay, but before we go into that, did you finish like your background and how you wanted to, how you started piercing work holdings?
Yeah, so I mean, I jumped in, I wanted to design just anything. I like design. I have another company’s machine. I was making, uh, my mountain bike suspension, linkages, things like that. And um, no little by little I realized, man, the guy’s making a lot of the money or the machine shops, you know? So, so I just bought a Haas mini mill and uh, just kinda stuck it in the corner of my dad’s shop and just kind of taught myself. This was like, Oh, Oh three Oh two Oh three. You know? So there was no YouTube there’s you just kinda, it was kind of scary. There was no Tor Mach pause. Mini mill was like the smallest, most affordable machine. It was about like 35. I got, I bought it used for like 22, but, um, no, it was just, it was just like, uh, teaching myself. And those are the days when I thought like 50 inches a minute, it was really hauling,
So, uh, no it’s come a long way. And then, and then through making those components, I realized, wait a minute, when people are, are, are okay with standing in front of a machine, making one part at a time, this is crazy. You know? And I was like, hyperactive testosterone fueled 20, 22 year old. And I’m going, man, I, I want to go surfing. I mean, I live in Southern California, so you can surf and snow and snowboard in the same day and mountain bike on the way there. So, so I’m like, man, I want to, I don’t want to stand in front of this machine is crazy. So I went looking for what, what is now our pallet system? And uh, no, I, I made a pallet system to make the suspension parts and because I had neighbors that were true machinists in the business park where my dad’s shop was, they started coming around. I was showing him what I was doing. Cause there was there wondering how I was like keeping my doors open, but I was gone for, you know, half the day because I would start and you know, I’d make money
All day long. What are you doing over there? I know, right? The machine was running. Yeah.
I’m like, you know, these guys are like, Hey, if this is a, you know, this, I remember this one neighbor said, man, you really, you really got to buckle down and work on your, uh, your, your work ethic. You know, you just come in for a few minutes and you leave and you go surf and you come back and you see you’re all dirty and been mountain biking. And I’m like, yeah, but I made a hundred parts while I was gone, you know? And so same customer. That was my biggest, our neighbor. That was my biggest critic ended up being my first customer.
Very nice. Yeah. That’s awesome. So, so, so your first product was your, your pallet system, not piranha jaws.
Yeah, so it was called the pallet retention system, terrible name, bad design looked awful, but it worked nice. And um, and so, you know, after five years I redesigned that to what now looks like our pro pallet system.
So she’s beautiful now.
Thank you. She’s grown up to be a lovely, lovely piece of metal.
Awesome. So, uh, Donny was talking about your lean manufacturing. I’ve also heard about your lean manufacturing through watching, uh, some, uh, John Saunders videos. Um, so I think you’re like known as like the lean man on a YouTube. Could you, could you kind of take us through some of those steps for the people that haven’t heard anything about lean manufacturing?
Yeah. So right off the bat, I get a lot of pushback sometimes for people to go, Oh, I can’t do lean or we tried lean and it doesn’t work. Yeah. The lean that we practice is not the Americanized. The, the dollar is the bottom line. That’s, that’s a profit centric. Lean we chase after what is called a people centric, lean making everyone’s jobs, better, making the workplace clean, enjoyable. And we’ve done that through just, um, well, the, the, the classic, um, definition that I give for lean is the ability to identify and eliminate waste through continual improvements and little improvements, cleaning up little by little and, um, to fast forward the story. We had a big order that we couldn’t get out the door. It was like a, it was four pallet systems. So it was like eight or $9,000 had to be on our customer’s floor to meet their, uh, quality deadlines or received, Oh, their, uh, their, their budget, their, uh, fiscal year budget.
And we couldn’t ship it because we were missing a handful of O-rings and they ended up canceling the order. And it was like this eight or $9,000 order. And I’m like, how, how does a, not even a 1 cent O-ring it was 0.80 cents for this O-ring. Yeah. And, and I’m like, how, how do we, I can’t believe this. We, we, I offered to ship in next year so that they would have it on the first. They were like, no, no, no, we gotta have it on the 30th of this month. No questions. You know, we’re a squeaky clean company. Yeah. Tight books, you know, so I ended up canceling the order and that was like, that was my, my rock bottom. And so I did the same thing. A lot of people do, I Googled lean manufacturing. And, uh, the story goes that, uh, I went on YouTube and I, and I found this, uh, it auto suggested lean shop tour by a guy named Paul acres.
And I’m like, ah, it’s 13 minutes. I’ll give it a quick watch. And I was blown away. And so I just snowballed it next next morning. I don’t think I slept at all that night. I came in just, just ugly face in the morning. And I told my one, one employee I had at the time, I said, John, sit down and watch this video. And we watched it and he slowly turned to me after, you know, the 12 or 13 minutes. He’s like, that was amazing. We have to do that. And, um, you know, the first thing we did, uh, we, we practice a 3s, which is sweep sort and standardize. First thing we did was we sweep, we swept and we got rid of everything that didn’t have anything to do with making a pallet system. Okay. And then the next thing we did was we sorted every tool that was left, that we needed. We put it in its place. And if it didn’t have a place, we did the third, we standardized and we made a place for it. So we never had to walk around the shop for 20 minutes looking for a five 30 seconds Allen ramps. Right. So, yeah,
J uh, number one, uh, I appreciate that you took us down to the, your rock bottom, whenever you started your business and you, and you lost an order because of something that happened inside the shop. Uh, because that a lot of people don’t show that like Facebook and Instagram, we’re just showing all like the happy moments and like our big orders, right. To highlight real. Yeah. The, and so, so it’s cool to see that you had this profound moment to where you’re like, I can do better. I have to do better. There’s gotta be a better way. Right. Um, so, so people can get better or they can get bitter. Yeah. NACE has this awesome notable quotable, NACE, would you break it down for us? You will give us a knowledge bomb here. So, so basically what, what Jay’s saying and what he’s experienced is you’re going to need to spend hours on something and you’re going to save years.
Oh, can you, can you say that again? So you spend hours, spend hours to save years to save you. And the best thing is people like, like that want to get to the top. They want to work on their business and not in their business. That, that brings me into one of my questions here in a minute. Hey Jay. So whenever, when, whenever NACE is talking about this spend hours of save years, there’s a lot of people that can’t comprehend that understand that, fathom it to where they’re living in the right now in this moment. And they can’t, they can’t focus on five minutes from now. So do you know how to focus on your future? Tell us, cause if you don’t schedule it, it doesn’t get done. It doesn’t get done. Nope. Because you’re just always just walking around, putting out fires, picking up piranha jaws. You’re just, you’re just being, you’re just being reactive calls.
Just being reactive emotion. Yeah. You’re just being reactive. Let’s just on fire off. So, but like, you know, whenever you said that you showed a video to one of your employees, like, cause there there’s there’s times when me and NACE have like, had this revelation, like Whoa moment, you know, and we’ve shared it with someone else maybe in our shop or whatever, but it didn’t quite make sense to them yet. Nope. So me and NACE were on our own. It was like civil war inside of our shop to where we were like, you know, this has to be done. It’s going to get done. People are going to hate us probably for a couple of weeks. Yeah. And we did it. And then people were like, Oh my gosh, that’s so much better. That just feels so much better in like Jay was saying earlier, like you want to have a fun culture. You want to clean shop. That makes you feel good. You want right lights. Right. You don’t want like a dark hole. Right. I mean,
We, um, we talked about like misused brain power a lot. Um, I just in life, in piranha jaws, in your work and your marriage, I mean, it plays such a big aspect and just day-to-day activities. And, uh, there’s a quote from Albert Einstein and it’s, uh, he, he wrote, uh, the papers to write things down that we need to remember. Our brains are used to think. And uh, I feel like when we take the time to like eliminate the mundane tasks, eliminate the, Oh, let me do I need to find this five 30 seconds Allen wrench, or I need to find this O-ring or where did I, where did I set this, this caliber at that you add those, those minutes up. And like
Nate said, those, those minutes turned into years and yes, time is the most valuable asset we have as humans. And I feel like the more time you waste on that stuff, it’s a, it’s a recipe for failure. So I kinda got this, what Donny seen. I know he, he brought it up to kind, kinda make fun of me, but I have it tattooed on my lower back. Oh, so the pan is for remembering yeah. The brains for thinking it is. Oh my, my pant line show us literally Jay, Jay, would you like me? Tramp stamp. Jay, would you like me to send you a picture of this? I’m good, bro.
Hey Jay. So as you are, you know, I, I I’ve, I’ve heard you talk about being innovative with your production. Um, this kind of feels like the same thing we’re talking about is spending hours to save your spending minutes to save hours. Um, sometimes as you know, I, I don’t know where you’re at, you know, in your company, but sometimes it feels like, you know, you wear a lot of hats in like the day just gets away from you a lot faster than you think that it should. And all of a sudden it’s just like gone and it’s time to go home. Um, and that might be at 10 o’clock or 12 o’clock at night, whenever you get tired. Um, but do you, do you find yourself, um, struggling with trying to spend those minutes or hours to save that extra time down the road? Or is that something that’s like, um, a big priority. Do you guys, as far as innovating your production, I, I feel like you guys understand that.
Yeah. So, um, man, I’m pretty broad topic. So, so to actually to back up and to encourage whoever’s listening. So to back up a little bit, um, a lot of guys say, man, I don’t know where to start with lean and, and uh, my advice actually wouldn’t be my advice. It’d be my right-hand man advice. John, he always tells people start small start, like, don’t start with this big, huge, like massive change, you know, just start with, you know, a filling, filling the, uh, soap dispenser, or putting a soap dispenser in the bathroom, like little things. And what happens when you take all these little steps, it buys you time and then you snowball that extra time into more improvements and more improvements. And then next thing you know, like, so we’re six, seven years into lean and it’s, it’s, it’s dramatic when we make a big lean improvement around here because it’s, it’s so efficient.
We have a long way to go, but we’re trying to squeeze the very last drop out of that sponge, you know? And it just, it takes more effort to make, uh, incremental improvements. And so yeah, to, to encourage anyone out there listening, man, if you get on lean and or if you don’t want to get on lean because you’re like, man, I got no time. I got like phone calls and emails. No, you have to start doing it. So that can free up margin in your life, in your life to actually be more efficient to specifically address your question. I, I do three things that come across my desk or my, my email or whatever. If someone comes up to me and I, and I kind of mentally categorize it, if it takes two minutes or less, I just go do that thing. Like, okay, Hey, uh, we just placed this order or just want to figure out, just want to double check that this is the right way.
Yep. Looks good. Thanks for the email done. Two minutes. Okay. So you can just do it. The next thing you can do is you can delay it. So delay means, you know, this, guy’s asking for, um, uh, some feedback on this job that he’s bidding on. Okay. It’s not urgent to him. Therefore it’s not urgent to me. I’m gonna tackle this after lunch or you can delegate it. Hey, give me guys, please give me a call. I want to place an order. It needs to ship today. Great. I’m going to delegate that to my office manager and he will contact that person. So you either do it, you delay it or you delegate it the three days. The three days. Yeah. Nice. And then there’s a fourth one that I’m trying to do more and more, which is delete. Like I got these ideas. Oh, it’d be awesome. If we could hook this thing up and have this electronic dude crazy. It’s not even back-burner worthy. Forget it, drop it a circle of background. So yeah, definitely that Einstein quote, man, um, the, the brain is meant for ideas. It’s not meant for keeping lists. That’s where people start to feel stressed out when they’re trying to remember all the things that happened.
I w I was literally going to ask you that, and it’s kind of like going in a circle here, but I was, I was going to tell you how much time that you know, me and nays came from a shop that my dad started there, you know, 40 years ago. Um, and so we spent, we’ve spent a lot of time, um, looking for tools because they were just, they got just put wherever. Uh, we spent a lot of time looking for fixtures. We spent a lot of time looking for prints. Um, you know, some of the little things we did was, uh, I think our job, shop’s probably a little different than other people’s job shops. Um, we actually don’t recycle our tools. Like they go in like designated bins because it’s repeat parts. So we have lots invested into just sticking tools and fixtures and jaws into a box that’s labeled. Um, but that has helped us a lot, um, finding our prints, you know, they’re, they’re now on the Google drive or they’re now on, um, our computers or they are, uh, numerically, uh, organized, uh, which before, like we had all of our prints just in a folder and you might spend 30 minutes trying to find the right print, you know? Um, so like those, those little things have definitely helped us. Um, but sorry,
I forgot what you did there. I don’t know if you intentionally did this, but you standardized there’s one spot for the Prince. Now. It was,
It was, it was accidentally on purpose. There was, it was because we were wasting so much time and we’re like, God, there’s gotta be a better way. Come on. Like, we’re not stupid. We’re running, we’re programming machines here. We can think it, we can figure it out and guys, um, you know, but I think a lot of guys, and I, I think you kind of talk about it a little bit too. A lot of, a lot of people will, uh, will like repurpose, you know, reuse and recycle stuff. And so our job, shop’s a little different to where we see a little bit more repeat parts. So we’re not usually recycling and repurposing things. Um, but I know that you, you hit on that a lot. And I think that that saves a lot, uh, that saves people a lot of money. Um, but, but, but as far as remembering the things or the, or the, the things on your lists that you need to get done through that day, I know when me and NACE first got our business coach, I don’t know if you have a business coach.
We have a business coach. Um, when we first met our business coach, these were some things that he brought into light for us was that, you know, if it doesn’t get scheduled, it doesn’t get done. Um, and if at a certain point there’s going to be a threshold where your brain literally cannot remember the tasks that you’re going to have to do that day. And they’re going to start dropping, they’re going to start falling. You’re gonna start dropping the ball. And me and NACE hit that several years ago. And, but if we don’t have our checklists, we literally won’t get things done that we are supposed to get done. Like piranha jaws, right?
Yes. I would agree with that. I have that spot. I have a custom made book that I carry everywhere. I even take it on vacation and it’s just my, my, uh, it’s like my backup brain. If something crosses my mind that I could file into the three DS or the four DS, I will immediately write it down and don’t, and I don’t worry where it goes. It just goes on this line later. At the beginning of the morning, I take all those thoughts of pots in my head and I prioritize them. And I know that, so, yeah, absolutely.
So you have a time where you will take those, you’ll reorganize them into like a priority list.
Yes. Nice. Every morning,
Every morning. So this might blow some people’s minds. Okay. Because one, I don’t think, I, I think Jay’s probably like, like way smarter than us. Probably. I believe, I probably would say that he hasn’t he’s hotter than you guys do. He doesn’t got a beard. He has a cleaner face. Yeah. But I, I believe that he’s, he hasn’t been able to clone himself, therefore. Yeah. He probably only has 24 hours in a day. He’s just like everybody else that’s on this planet. Right. Hey, Hey, Jay. Ha, have you ever, have you been able to successfully, uh, 3d print yourself or clone yourself? No. I’m going to keep
Trying though. I would love to punch myself in the face.
No, but I would love to kick myself right in the attendant. Yeah.
Speaking of punching yourself in the face, what does your culture at, uh, at Pearson workholding look like?
Yeah. Good segue. You know, Lloyd, just when I think you couldn’t possibly be any dumber, you go and do something like this and totally redeem yourself.
It’s an honest question, man. We’ve asked every eye, every, um, every shop so far that we’ve had on we’ve at some way, shape or form, I’ve asked them sort of like, what’s the culture like in your shop? We, we talked about this in the early episodes. Um, how, uh, how to, how culture can really affect the workflow of the environment, how it can either be a positive thing or just one person can just genuinely, uh, spread like a cancer and just destroy a work environment. So we’re just curious as, uh, how you incorporate your, your lean into, um, Pearson workholding and the work environment that it’s produced for you.
Yeah. So one thing that lean does is it depersonalizes decisions and it takes, it takes the humanity. So like most shops or most organizations have a hierarchy. Like you have your manager, you have your, your grunts, you know, you have the owner. What lean does is it creates a process that everyone needs to follow. And, you know, I say it often in different videos and talks or articles, whatever I’ve done, where I may be the owner of Pearson workholding, but I’m not the boss. The boss is, uh, the, the process is the boss. Let me say that again. I may be the owner, but I’m not the boss. The process is the boss. So, you know, so, and, and same goes like if, um, like one of like my shop foreman, if he’s like, no, I want to do it this way. Another guy says, well, we should do it that way.
We pull out the filter for lean and Hey, you guys both want to make this job go smoother or this process better. And then we have a four, a four step filter to see, you know, who wins essentially is the process safer or equally safe? If it’s more dangerous, we don’t change it. Is it more simple? If it’s more complex, sorry, we’re not going to change it. Does it yield higher quality? And if it yields lower quality, but it’s faster, sorry, we’re not going to do it. And finally, the fourth one is speed. Is it faster? So you have to go in that order. I think I said it out of order. It’s safety, quality simplicity, speed. So we just, you know, I’ll sometimes mediate, uh, you know, a couple of my, uh, product line managers and say, well, you guys want to build this fixture. What, what’s your idea? What’s your idea? And we just go through and go, well, here’s is a lot more simple, sorry, John, or this one a lot faster. Um, sorry, Alex, and then there’s no, there’s no hard feelings. There’s no, my way or the highway that’s what’s toxic is when people start to flex around the shop. Right. There’s so many, there’s so many knowledge bombs in this.
No, I just I’m like holding back. Cause I have stuff to say, but I just want to listen to, to the, uh, professional here. So yes, that’s awesome.
So I will, I will say, I mean, hit up my employees on, on Instagram. I can humbly say that they all love working here. Yeah. Um, and everyone gets along that hasn’t always been the case because everyone brings their baggage from their previous employer and we have to break it down. Like my, my biggest thing for new hires is, Hey man, you are going to make mistakes. I love mistakes because that teaches us what we need to change to improve the process. So if you break an end mill or a tool or screw up a fixture, no problem, but don’t do it a second time. Learn from it, document it and put it in a place. And, and then I always tell guys, every mistake you are going to make in this company, I’ve already made two to three times. Nice. So he love mistakes around here. They’re not, it’s not, not a shame. There’s no shame involved. Right.
So talk to me about mistakes and talking about the culture, talking about how you hire, like when you hire, we, we did an episode on hiring and firing and kind of how we deal with that. What is your process? What does that look like? What, what kind of people are you looking for? Uh, whenever you hire in, like you talked about documenting, what does that process look like for Pearson?
Yeah. So I mean, kind of my, uh, my main qualification is that they’re just a total rockstar. Um, we want to pay highly competent, experienced people with piranha jaws and compensate them better than they deserve. Essentially. I think that’s a great starting point. I’ve, I’ve done the thing. Like my buddy, John Saunders, he hires, you know, uh, interns or high school guys or guys, you man, I just had, and I think it’s worked for him, but it just has not worked for us because when you’re training someone, you take a, a low paid employee that probably has, uh, maybe a limited attention span. Maybe they’re still trying to feel out the industry. And, and you have, uh, the time stolen from a highly competent high paid person. And the two of them together are getting virtually nothing new done. So that’s why I just go for the rockstar day one.
Hey, uh, and, and when we train people up, first of all, we train people via video to our codes. There’s QR codes everywhere around the shop. Guys. I just want to train the camera once, create barcode, and then they can watch it. Um, training is a very high stress, um, environment for a trainee because he’s trying to remember everything cause he doesn’t want to off his or his manager. And he’s going to forget stuff. He can’t he’s, he’s timid to go back and ask. So that’s what we do. Video. He-Man scan that QR code, come back and ask me if you have any questions that weren’t answered in it. Yeah. So mining and stuff like that.
Right. So, so, so spend, spend hours saviors. There you go. So nailed it. So do it once you don’t have to do it again. So you created a system as far as like your, even your training, you have the QR codes that will link you to videos that you just had to do at once at a certain point, you decided, why, why do I keep doing this? I’m going to do it once, record it, and then it’s going to be done. Right? Yup. You got it. Nice. So are you looking for an attitude as well? Are you looking for only, like when you talk about a rockstar, like, what are your qualities in that rockstar?
Humble and knowledgeable. Yeah. Humble. Meaning, um, they may know a lot, but they’re still going to have their ears open. Like one guy I just hired Chris. He’s awesome. He ran a shop for 15 years, grew up in a shop working part-time nights to make extra money. I’m like, dude, we gotta get you out of the night. He’s got three kids, hired him, completely competent machinist. Um, and, and I’m going to him and saying, Hey Chris, can you, can you teach me how to run this lady that I just bought? You know? And, and he does. And he’s a calm and, and humble and, and all my, all my guys, very, very, uh, mellow personality. There’s very little stress in the company. It’s pretty much like no stress. We’re busy, we hustle, we sweat, but it’s not stress, you know? And so if a guy is humble, he’s teachable. And then, um, and then on the flip side knowledge, you get a guy that’s humble, teachable and knowledgeable to that guy. That is the definition of a rockstar. So that’s it
Very nice. So you heard it from Jay Pearson. That’s what a rock star is. I like it. Hey, Hey, Jay. Uh, now at, at this time in your company, how, how, how old is your company now?
Oh, man, I’ve been, I’ve been running. What was called Pierson industries. Started that in Oh three. That’s when I was doing the bike stuff, but really I pivoted to doing work, uh, work holding in, uh, 2010. So yeah. Nice. Oh, and it was just me up until 2014, 2015. That’s when I heard my first rockstar I had had part-time guys, stuff like that. And you know, trying to throw him a bone guy, loses a buddy of mine, loses a job, you know, hire him. It’s just never worked out. So yeah, 2015 was my first, first rockstar. So we’re, uh, we’re five years into being a multi-person company. We’re up to 10 employees right now.
Very nice. Congratulations. Hey, uh, do you find, uh, I wanted to ask him that, does he find D J do you find yourself, you know, working in, or working on the company more these days?
Um, yeah, I, I definitely actively avoid working in the company. So basically the things that I tasked myself are things that are new or things that are broken and you fix them. They’re going to make it better. You bring on new technology, piranha jaws, or new process or a new fixture. You’re going to make it better. So my job now is to basically work on the company, but I gotta be honest with you. I spent today running a lave because I just wanted to run away. That’s it?
That is so much fun. Sometimes it’s just getting out there and running parts again, making chips. Yeah. Days, days in the past, about, about eight years ago, NACE, we were, we were making chips most of the days and sometimes it’s really nice to come in on the weekend and just, just make chips. And you know what, the other day we have, um, actually since we started using Jay’s products, you’ve got some new, uh, uh, aerospace parts. Yeah. There’s no way to do it unless you suck it. Right. And so the other day I was in the machine for probably, I mean, it’s the first time in probably like six months, maybe a year. And I came home and my wife was like, Hmm, I don’t miss that smell. And then she’d smell oil, you know? Well, so, so you brought up Jay’s system. So we got the smart vac, three J I just wanted to say it sucks. It sucks. It sucks hard. And I’ve never had my parts sucked quite like this before. And they said, have you ever, have you ever had your part stuck like this before? I mean, it’s, it’s debatable, but, but never in the sh shop, never in the shop. No, but I mean,
You guys got, you guys got two of them. We,
We do have two suckers. We’ve got two suckers here. Um, and, uh, I, I’ve never used this type of a system before. This is all new to us, but, uh, I will say Jake, not disappointed by the quality nor the performance. I mean, it made the job. It was the only thing that made the job able to get done. I mean, it was awesome.
That’s awesome. It’s hard work to make it suck as hard,
You know, on a real note, it’s one of those products that when you see other people get it, like, for example, they sent me the picture of it and I’m looking at this thing and you know, it’s really, you kind of have to go where the work leads you, but when you see products like that, you really just, you really hope that something like that comes across your door, you just buy it. What can I suck at? What can I suck down to buy this stuff?
Metal could get hickeys. Yeah. It would be because of Jay. Yeah, because it’s the best sucker it is. Hey, Hey Jay, did you know that a Dyson sucks for about eight years before it made a profit? I kind of heard that. Yeah. So I, I bet I bet the smart vac didn’t suck at all. It just, it didn’t, it, it made profits from the beginning.
Uh, it did. So I introduced the smart back cause I did a little, uh, Kickstarter campaign that needed some, some super high power suckage. And, uh, you know, I just looked at what was out there in a lot of the vacuum workholding technologies, borrowed from the woodworking industry, which is not the right direction, you know? Cause you pull chips, coolant, anything, you get a tank hooked up, you gotta your tank leaks. It’s leaking, you know, air back into. It’s just a nightmare. So I just started, I, I dug back into my old college physics books and learned about the Venturi principle and design the system. And uh, it looks like you hold it, it’s fairly tiny, but it’s a lot of work to, to pack that much sucking power into that little box. You know? So yeah.
So, so I haven’t done a whole lot of research. Is there any maintenance that we have to do on this smart back? I thought you were going to say a whole lot of sucking. You caught me off guard. I thought you were going to say, can you teach my wife, um, the Venturi system I’m going to, I’m going to let her borrow the physic books. Hey, I have a notable quotable. Nope, Nope. Statement the statement. Okay. So with Dyson, you said Dyson, they sucked for eight years. They did 5,127 attempts before they got it. Right? No, that’s almost reminds me of this crazy Thomas Edison with the light bulb, I believe. Yeah. So don’t give up, so, okay. So piranha jaws did you get it right on your first time where you like bam knocked it out of the park? Or did you have to, did you have to kind of do some revisions?
Well, you’re on the smart back three, which means
Right. Well, I didn’t know if that was just like, you want to make it prettier.
No, it was, it was, there was a terrible, smart back one. I’m embarrassed. I’m going to give you refund checks of the people that bought those, you know, it was in that that was released in 2010 or 2009. And I probably sold, I dunno, maybe like 20 or 30 and they were prone to clogging and prone to permanent clogging. They just couldn’t get cleaned.
Can I tie into your, to your little statement here? Um, I hear all the time people are talking about making products and they want to get it perfect before they release it. But if you wait until it’s perfect, you’re too late. You’re too late. You missed, you missed that ship. It’s gone because someone else has already done. Jay already did it. She’s pregnant. Jay, Jay already did it with that escalated. He did it with the smart back one. He came out before everybody else on that deal. But yeah, if like me and NACE, I would think, uh, me and NACE aren’t as handsome as UJ or as intelligent. Uh, we do grow decent beards. Um, but when we came out with some of our products, um, luckily there’s no re there’s no revisions, except we’ve added a couple of features, but we haven’t had to change stuff. Um, I think it was luck. And, uh, there was no skill. I don’t know if there’s a whole lot of skill. Uh, but w w we just took the things that we knew over the years that we’ve done, we’ve dealt with. And somehow the stars aligned, Whoa, the stars aligned, and it was a good product. And we did that on a lot of products that we’ve made so far. We haven’t had to redesign stuff. We do most of our revisions at night, and then in our brain, I think bouncing ideas off each other. Yeah.
So if I could add, I, you know, we own your products as well. So my products suck yours. Definitely bite.
Oh, that’s like the perfect combo. I bite you suck that. T-shirt it is. Hey Jay, Jay, Jay, we’re doing a collaboration. T-shirt Oh, I bought you suck. That’s we’ll get, we’ll get his logo logo. Yeah. Just made a baby. Yeah. I’m excited. It’s not pulling out. It’s not J did you, did you see that post where we, we did a post, uh, and I CA I had some weird notable quotable thing that I thought was, sounded cool in my head, but it probably wasn’t very cool. And then when you sent me that, and then Donny Donny said his quote, like, uh, Donny, you gotta say it. I don’t know what,
So you had a, quite a bit of a, you had quite a bit of feedback on that. There were some really good ones. Um, there were some really, really good ones. I’m trying to find the one that was my favorite it’s in here somewhere. Oh, there was a lot of them, man.
I, you know, I actually had to give away a free set of jaws cause I promised somebody, so I got a, I got it. I can’t give it to you Donnie, because
Khorana jaws was up. Pat at old boys was, uh, one of my favorites. Uh, he says Parana, Joel’s not the only thing I’ll be burring my spindle into tonight.
Oh man. But yeah, I responded to that with, uh, basically just saying my pullout games week.
Yeah. I think, I think when we have a t-shirt we needed to come up with like all the best quotes and just put it on the back. Just all of them on there.
It’s just, it’s just good. It’s just so good. There were so many, um, Oh, here’s the heroes here? It is. Uh, Pat at old boys again, he says, uh, I retract my previous statement and I replace it with my parts. Don’t pull out and neither do I.
Hey, uh, okay, Jay. So you have, uh, you have some jaws from us. Yeah. Sure. Do. Do you have, uh, do you have a quick vice handle? Yeah, we do. Oh, you do? Nice. Do you have any Pronto strips? No, we do not. Oh, Hey. You know, what, what, what type of promise strips would you like to have in all? And just some for free?
What works on the other side of pit bull clamps? Oh man. Hey,
Uh, there’s like Yates precision. Do you follow him? I do. So he’s making all of his like razors, uh, with one inch. So he uses one inch and the pit bull clamps on the other side. Uh, but it just kind of depends. I, I, so I saw a video today and you have like these calculations for like a uniform clamps, like you do times two or whatever you do for every one inch or every two inches, you do one. So, so I don’t know what you’d do there, but like for our piranha jaws, uh, they’re, they’re six inches and eight inches. Um, we’re only doing like three inches of clamping per eight inches. Um, so I don’t know if that’s smart, uh, but it works and we’ve never had anything pull out because we bought hard. Uh, but um, we have one inch, four inch, five inch, six inch and eight inch. So whatever you want, I will, I will load it up tomorrow and get it ready to send to you.
I, I, I’m thinking of like at least two or three fixtures right now where we could use the one inch. Oh, perfect. We can redo or are some of our pallets and feature them in a, in a fixture Friday night. Cause I get that question a lot. Hey, I’m using a Pitbull clamps on one side and is it okay that just it’s just button up against a flat piece of aluminum. Yeah, it is. But it could be better. So, and that’s when I dropped the, uh, the current Pronto stuff, you know, my last picture Friday. Yeah,
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was very excited about that. Yeah. Um, so you just tell me how many, one inch piranha jaws strips you need and I will send you some all right. So, so just so just send me a message and I will get you guys hooked up. Hey, so, so with our Pronto jaws, what are you guys doing with them?
Uh, we, okay. So right now we use it in an op one. We, we don’t use vices that much. We fix your, you know, 90% of our stuff, but we will use it to hold like, um, our pro pallet system basis, the first operation we bite, you know, really aggressively. We just go to town on that, our mini pallet systems. And I feel like there’s something else. There’s three things we use it for. Do you guys, do
You guys need an eight inch set?
No. No. Cause we only have, uh, like two, six inch vices in the shot.
Well, our VI, our eight inch jaws are for six inch vices. Oh. So, so we have this whole pattern for a six inch. So we have the 80,000 in the one 25. So if you want some eight inches, let me know and I’ll get you hooked up with that too. No, that’s fantastic. Yep. Yeah, we just had, we just had a three Kurt vices set up on the via four with some aerospace, uh, 70, 75 aluminum. And, uh, we had three sets of eight inch jaws in there with our promise with the 80,000 step. And, uh, we just hit start and it was like four later we had to come back and a machine full of chips and yeah. And, but I would say that the two extra inches made, uh, made a pretty good difference. That’s what she said. Yeah. Yeah. I believe that.
So, um, you know, the industry, like we see it all the time. It’s constantly evolving and you guys are developing products. I’ve I personally haven’t developed products. I’ve used products before. Um, what are the J what are some of the steps that you take to like, you know, stay ahead of the curve, but like you said before, you’re, you can, you know, continuing to provide like your quality that, that I’ve seen everyone come to know and love. Um, what is kind of like your, your, your mentality and your process behind that?
Oh man, all, all the products that I’ve designed, um, they’re all all built out of necessity, you know, in our own shop. Like, you know, I mentioned the well the pallet system for my mountain bike parks, the, uh, smart back for that Kickstarter. And then our roto vice was to make smart vac, vacuum power units. So [inaudible], you know, and, and we’re like, man, we just can’t be making these one or two at a time and advice. We built the road device cause it’s machine and all it has, well, it’s machined on four faces all, obviously all six sides and we just needed a, a fourth axis solution. So, um, our next product, which I wish could have been launched this year, but just it’s been, it’s been a record year. We’re just trying to make what we currently produce faster and more efficiently. So, you know, that would be our five axis work holding system. Um, so imagine pallets, but they’re gonna be round and they’re going to be taller. So, you know, you can hit, you can, you can customize six sides of a pallet or I’m sorry, five sides of a pallet. And, um, and then just fix your, your parts that way. So that’s that’s next? Uh, the goal is February of 20, 21.
Very nice to hear. Hey Jay, whenever you’re it’s my birthday. Oh, February 1st. Happy birthday. Um, Bruce Lee’s birthday too. Yeah, that’s true. Uh, Jay, whenever you talk about seeing a need, not only in the industry, but also in your own shop, um, so you develop a product that maybe, uh, is lacking you, maybe you improve something or you develop something completely new. Um, how, how do you look at the industry and decide on a price?
Hmm, Hmm. Yeah. Uh, good question. So I actually did a Pierson work holding Q and a about pricing. Dang it. I missed it. Yes. Okay. Um, there’s, there’s three ways to price things. If it’s a commodity. Um, actually I talked about that on another podcast. The guys make little like Lego figures that they can tolerance. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a good show. So like, if you’re just cranking out Lego blocks, it’s pretty much a commodity or any plastic injection type stuff. So that’s one way to price. The other thing is if there’s a, a, a, a markup, like if it’s something like, Hey, we’re making, you know, um, uh, I don’t know, like some sort of pair of scissors. Okay. Well on Amazon, you can buy scissors for three bucks or 20 bucks. Well, we’ll, we’ll shoot for the $10 market, you know, and it’s in relation.
And then when you get to like a unique product, like we’re holding or anything in a niche industry, you really have to price it to value. And so, you know, like, Hey, we could, I could develop a product, you know, in a couple of years where it would take, let’s say it’s theoretical. It took a one hour cycle time down to five minutes. Well, I’m not going to sell that for 25 bucks. You know? So break up the price on that. And the early adopters are going to be the ones that kill the people that just like doing it the old way, you know? And so we, I have a mentality of partnering with our customers that see our videos. They see our products. They’re like, wow, that is forward thinking. I do want to innovate my production, done deal. Here’s my credit card. How soon can I get it?
So that’s the type of thing. And then on the flip side, I almost loath the di the old school distribution model, because most distributors, yeah. They’re gonna, well, our local distributors, I got a bone to pick with all of them. They don’t stop and no, they don’t, they don’t have the tools. They don’t have we’re out of pit bull clamps. They’re going to come from the East coast and five days, you know, it’s like, dude, what, what are you distributing? So you’re just taking your pushing paper w cashing my check. Right. So, you know, we sell direct. So right there, we cut out, you know, 20, 30, 40% markup. Right. And then we FA we, uh, support it direct from the factory. In fact, I pick up the phone like 80% of the time, either me or another guy. Okay. So, um, no, it’s that model of saying, Hey, we got really innovative products. If you can’t see it, man, we’re, we’re not going to try and convince you, but to the people that are kind of going back to me that are like, man, we got, we got a 500 piece run. I am not going to stand in for this machine again, Donnie. I think that’s what you were talking about working, you know, on the business versus working in the business, our pallet systems, help people work on the business, you know, standardizing to where they can go surfing. There you go. Yeah.
So, so that was something that I was going to ask you because that’s very, um, interesting to me because we’ve started our product and I don’t know how long you’ve been following us or anything like that. But, you know, we were typically a job shop and we saw a need that wasn’t out there yet fit the access did come out with something similar. Um, for the Curt vices, we have like 20 Kurt vices in our shops. So we’d just have maybe even more. Um, and so once I got there, their first vice, um, I saw, I was like, Oh, that’s a, that’s a good move, but there’s not something for the, for the Curt. And so we developed one for that and it was out of 10, 18, and it was okay. So I take it back. We did do a revision, it was out of 10, 18, and it sucked.
Um, but the, but the dimensions and the geometry stayed the same. Um, we just took it to 41 40. Um, but other than that, I mean, whenever, whenever that stuff started taking off, I started, I had, I didn’t chase any distributors. And so that was one thing I was going to ask you, if you did a distributor ship, if you had distributors, um, because that’s kind of, we also sell direct. Um, but we also sell through a lot of distributors. Um, and so we also had to have that it’s not a pointless market, but that markup, that that margin gets taken away by the distributors, uh, you know, like 30%. Um, and so anything we produce now, we know, Hey, listen, 30% of this is getting taken away. So we have to make sure that, um, you know, we look at things we’re looking at, you know, our job shop rate, you know, and we always try to make things with the, with American quality, you know, number one, um, try to use American tools, American machines.
We try to support America as much as physically possible. Um, sometimes it doesn’t work out, but we try the hardest. Um, and then we know that, you know, at this price point we can, we’re not doing it for free. Uh, but, but we, we try not to gouge people. We try to do it at a reasonable price. Um, mean people got to eat my guy. Yeah. They had to do so. So you’re, so you’re doing everything direct. Uh, Donnie had something wrote down here and I’m going to steal it, Donnie. Um, but how, how did you start that, um, that cycle of people coming directly to you? Was it through social media? Was it through your, um, through your website and do an SEO, um, kind of, kind of walk us through that?
Yeah. So originally I would say it was, it was through just a clean website. Um, I kind of built websites on the side at one point in my life. So I built, built our original website and it was, um, looking back it’s terrible. But at the time it was slightly above average, especially in the industry, you know? And so, um, that was the first thing. Um, actually the thing that I can map directly to increase sales was an e-commerce site that we put into practice in 2010. And instantly I knew, like I woke up after the morning I launched and there’s like two orders, you know? And I’m like, Whoa, they got placed at 4:00 AM. Oh, it’s from the East coast, you know? And so little things like that and just, just eliminating the struggle in, Hey, I’d like to get a price. Okay. Here’s your quote.
All right. Here’s my purchase order or here’s the invoice? Here’s my check. Great. Here’s your tracking number? I mean, that’s crazy. So to eliminate that friction building out an e-commerce site, which we still use to this day, same system, um, then on top of that, buying on Google ad-words, um, and being ads through Microsoft, um, we still see a significant portion of our traffic through just straight up Google searches. Okay. Um, and then probably in the last, uh, three years stepping up our piranha jaws game, um, on YouTube for sure. Uh, hiring a producer nearly full-time to produce our content and, um, yeah, just, just producing more and more content. So, um, it’s enough, you know, we’re w like I said, we’ve been having a record year. This, this month is going to be a record month as well. We already know that going
Into it. Very nice. And so we
Just, we just go, well, let’s just keep doing what we’re doing. Right. And
If it’s not broke, don’t fix it. Don’t fix it. Yeah, yeah,
Yeah. So, yeah, no, I’ve, I’ve considered as we grow, Hey, let’s, let’s go through distribution, but most distributors, they’re not going to push the product and worse yet. They’re not going to know it. Like we know
That was the, um, that was the biggest hurdle for me. Um, working in a tooling manufacturer, dealing with distributors is that, you know, you’ve got guys that are out there representing your brand, and you’re trying to, you know, somehow portray your, your passion for it and your knowledge base through a, uh, you know, through a salesman that’s just out there to make a, you know, make a sale. And it doesn’t translate over. And I found that more and more, I got more reception and, and, and, and better feedback from people that they would actually, the salesman would say, here you go. This is my contact. And it was me. And it would just directly call me. They weren’t even purchasing from me. It was through them, but they would call me and get their order going. And it was just because they wanted the direct contact. They didn’t want to deal with the third-party. They didn’t want to deal with somebody that didn’t know what they were talking about. They wanted to go directly to the source. And I feel like more and more these days, that’s what people want. They just, they don’t want to deal with. They don’t have the time to deal with the purchase orders. And the, can you send me the quote, can you give me this? What’s the, what’s this number? And,
The part number I need to enter it into mind system and data. They don’t want to deal with that. Just, this is what I need, man. Can you get it to me and be done? Yeah.
Yeah. I would say, you know, distribution still has its value. If it’s more of a commodity or commonly known product, like end mills, I think that’s fine. That goes through to C distribution. If the fricking distributors around here would actually keep them in stock, that’s what kills me. Um, cause it seems like all the meals we buy they’re from, you know, the Midwest or the East coast, uh healable in particular. And, um, yeah, no, there’s this, th the, the distributors have to add value. I don’t want them just knocking on doors, selling, you know, a vacuum system to a guy that’s not going to be, he’s not going to be trained. He doesn’t know what it does, and then he’s going to want to return it, you know, just,
And I don’t, I don’t think, um, people that are manufacturing products, um, understand how, how much it hurts them. Um, you know, when they’re products out there and it’s not being represented well or misunderstood, or we, I couldn’t tell you how many times. And I I’ve used helical. I’ve used, uh, Kennametal, I’ve used all sorts of different tooling. And I would get calls from, you know, lifelong customers. They were having issues with tooling, and it took one day of just having poor customer service or just a relationship with their distributor that they bought the tooling from and unable to get with helix or unable to get with whoever it may be. And they ended up coming to us and ended up buying, buying something because they just wanted some, literally it was the, the, the pushing point for them. And it’s, it’s a make it or break it at one moment. Can, can change your whole entire, like a customer can literally disappear in the blink of an eye, just from a bad experience of, uh, communication. Really.
Very true. Absolutely.
Yeah. Hey Jay, so what, what do you see in the future for Pearson work holdings?
Um, uh, more automation. Um, we pretty much have, like I’ve said before, we, we are a machine shop with one customer ourselves, and we know all the jobs that are come in, we know how to make them. And so now it’s just a matter of getting, moving away from like the prototype kind of onesy twosy type approach to like, Hey, let’s do this right. Let’s palletize let’s skit. Uh, my next purchase would probably be a horizontal mill. Um, and, uh, and more robots. I just ordered a piranha jaws robot today. So yeah. More and more of that.
Are you going to do the ISI 400 or yes. See 409.
I mean, what are you going to do now? The robot’s going to take your spot and you’re not gonna be able to be in that.
Lady’s going to work on his company.
Then think about that. I don’t know what I’m going to do. That’s a good point.
Um, to delete it’s time to delete. There you go. All right, man, I gotta, so, you know, we’re machinists we’re we dive into our work and we dive into, you know, we just love the industry. We love everything about it, but for me that my second favorite thing is food. I love food. Like I love good food. There’s just something about it that just gets us close to like, you know, nailing a program. First, try just things work out great. And you’re like, man, this, I really feel like I got it. That same feeling hits me when I like go out and get a really good meal. What is, uh, what’s your go-to, what’s your go-to, what’s your, go-to your, your good meal?
Um, I mean, being Southern California, we have some really killer Mexican restaurants around here. I mean, it’s just like, Oh, that was good. We’ve got terrible barbecue because I just got back from Nashville last week and I’m like, Oh yeah, yeah. That’s what, that’s what good barbecue team I used to live in Austin. Same thing you come out here, like they had a St St. Barbecue. Um, but no, I’d say Mexican food. We’ve got, I mean, it’s such a cultural melting pot here, here in Southern California. Pretty much every restaurant is, uh, like an ethnic style restaurant. It’s just delicious, you know? Yeah.
I can eat anything ethnic, just anything with just that kind of, that, just a flavor explosion like that. It’s, it’s so clean. It just, you can eat thousands and thousands of it, whatever it may be. You just eat it all the time.
Exactly. Yeah. No, we’ve got a, so we’ll go to Ventura. That’s our nearest, like kind of a beach town and we’ll just set up some seafood there and like, like this thing was swimming 30 minutes ago. Yeah. You know, I’m shoving it down my goals.
So you’re, you’re in California. Are you guys, uh, do you do a lot of, um, outdoors stuff? Like, do you do, uh, grilling a lot or anything like that?
I grill like eight months out of the year. It’s yeah. It’s just like,
Are you talking about like propane grill and you’re talking about charcoal wood.
Yeah. I’m a, I’m a, keep it simple guy and go with propane. Okay. Um, yeah, I just haven’t got into it.
What have we got? What if you got like a sexy, uh, mm. Grill [inaudible] I’d definitely give it a shot. Oh, you would? Okay. Hey, Johnny, you got to tell Jay about the steak that you had on the grill.
So they, they told me about this product, but when I was coming up to do this, to record the show with a bomb and, uh, they flew me up there to hang out and, uh, I was just super cool experience. And they also dropped the, uh, the first production model on a Avon as a gift. Um, and, uh, we decided that we were going to cook on it that night. And it was the first time I think anyone had cooked on it yet. So we set this up and me and Jordan ran into town and we, we went to this store and we found I really good looking rib-eyes I was really surprised, the most
Expensive, most expensive rib-eyes you can buy. Yeah.
Basically at that store, they were the most expensive and they were really good looking rib-eyes we got some, some really good chunky salt, coarse black pepper. That was it. And these guys are looking at me like, man, you’re not, you don’t got any steak sauce. You don’t have any, like, there’s no 10 spice seasoning rub. You’re going to like know just a good steak, just needs salt and pepper. Yeah. So it’s like, it’s pitch black. We set this grill up over some, uh, he’s got a, just stacks of pecan wood. We light it up and get the grill seasoned, ready to go. And we put these steaks on. And, uh, one of their, one of their, uh, coworkers, Brandon, he’s usually on the show. He, um, he eats his steak
Like, well, well done. It’s like jerky,
Cook it until it’s dry. And then I’ll eat it with a one steak sauce watching these guys faces when they took their first bite of this steak cooked off of that grill. It was truly, uh, a cool experience for me. But it honestly, I’ve never eaten a steak that tasted like that before in my, um, it, if you’ve ever cooked a steak in a cast iron skillet, you know that you get that flavor from a cast iron, you know, lots of butter. You can toss it around, do all kinds of that stuff, but you get a different kind of flavor and it’s a different texture, but you get that sear, but you get a good sear on it. When you cook on a grill or like a flame or anything like that, you, you get a different, it’s a different texture, but it’s a different flavor as well. I’ve never had a hybrid of both happened before in my mouthful.
And that’s what happened that night. I
Felt like I was eating a cast iron, like a really good seared buttery steak, but I didn’t, I literally just put salt and pepper on it and cooked it on the grill over wood-fire. And I didn’t know what to say. And I think for what, three days straight, we just ate nothing.
It’s just a nonstop. We just kept eating it. And we kept trying to understand why it was tasting the way it did. And I really truly credited to the type of the type of cooking utensil.
Mm girl, Hey, Hey Jay. So what we want to do here? I don’t know if this is appropriate. Um, but what we want to do some sucking. No, no, that wasn’t where I was going with that. So what I was going to say was that we want to give you guys, I don’t, we want to give you a grill. Okay. And then you guys can give it away to whoever, whoever you want to, but if you want to do some awesome giveaway, we’ll want to give you one of the grills and you can give it away. Or, I mean, you can keep it, you can be selfish and keep it to yourself. Um, yeah, but, but you can give it away. Okay. If you want. Hey, Andy. And so we’re going to send you some Pronto strips, probably some adience jaws, and we’re going to send you a grill. Um, and then you can do a cool giveaway. Um, is it, is it weird that we have a company, a company that does like work holding and products and then we’re like, Oh, let’s make a grill. Is that weird?
Uh, no. I would say that’s actually historically pretty, pretty innovative. I just got done reading a book about like a 3m. What’s another one. Um, uh, HP, gosh, uh, there’s all these like tech companies and like well-known companies that used to make like sprinklers and then lawn mowers. And they made like adding machines or, you know, IBM or something like that. I can’t remember, but no, that’s normal. I say, I say, shoot, as many arrows, as many targets as you can, one is going to hit a bullseye
Eventually. Yeah. I mean, it was like one of those things where we’re guys, we like grilling. Yep. Uh, we like hanging out. Um, and you know, like is weird. Like, uh, I went to go buy a tent after all this weird stuff’s going on with COVID and everybody’s getting quarantine. I couldn’t buy a tent. All my tent, all the tents were gone. They’re out of stock. And so we realized everybody’s going camping. Yeah. And so we’re like, and we’re grilling on these weird rusty rusted out grills at the campsites and stuff. It’s like, there’s gotta be something better than that. Ain’t no, like, I don’t know if someone’s peed on that in the middle of the night. I have no idea. Probably. Probably, probably I would say we gotta get that fire hot. Um, and so we made a girl
Sterile and I liked the taste. Yeah.
And so we made this grill and I cook on it and like every weekend I just can’t stop cooking on it. Yeah.
We basically just send each other messages back and forth like, Hey bro.
Yeah. You each other meat. Pigs. Yeah.
Yeah. Can I throw out my theories on why this grill is so amazing, please do it. So here’s the deal. So I make these things called smash burgers. You guys will. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So again, cast iron, you start in a ball and then you smash it and you keep it under load compression until you sear it. And then you, you scrape it. Cause it’s going to stick to the cast iron or you scrape it, you flip it over and you sear it again. And then you just let it slow cook and cooking on flat surfaces, not like a, like a, like a grated grill. You lose the juice and, and uh, and, and it’s the, the fire burning off the skin. But when you, when you cook something on flat, like the, uh, like cast iron or the grill, if that’s how you pronounce it, walk it in some of that juice that would like evaporate or get burned off or something. So right.
You’re dude, you’re you’re good, man. So that was my exact assumption. When I first cooked on it was that I, there wasn’t any loss of, of, you know, that you want to cook. Like if you’re cooking meat, you want to cook it within its own, you know, own fat. Like that’s where flavor comes from. As the fat smashed burgers, you cook those guys and they’re, you’re, you’re, you’re pressing these things down and the fat is melting and you’re cooking in that. That’s where the flavors at the same thing happened with those steaks. You D you got the, the essence of the wood, the flame, but the width of those greats and the, and just the type of grill, it was, it kept all that moisture there. Like, you didn’t lose it. It didn’t burn off. It was almost cooking in its own fat.
I’m going to stop you there. Cause I couldn’t understand you. Most people couldn’t understand you. Could you do that again? Just talk about it. Yeah.
Yeah. So that was what I would want to credit, um, flavor.
I definitely can’t understand them now cause they’re just listening to this, turn that crap off. Okay. Okay. Hey, you know what, Donnie, I don’t know if I told you today, but today we got our first second skillet. Yeah, it’s an skillet. So it’s like a, it’s like, uh, it’s a, it’s a play off the grill, but someone asked me, I want to fry eggs on this thing. And I was like, well, you can’t do it with the, with the American flag in the middle of it. So we can have to figure that. So we made a skillet slash firebox. So this thing will, will raise up your coal bed or your wood up closer to the, you know, to the, to the grill. Um, so you, so you can either do one or the other. You can actually, you, you can use it just for frying on, or you can use it for using, you’re like holding your coal up closer to the actual grill. Uh, but it’s, it’s, it’s going to be sick. It’s going to be really good. And I, I think Jay kind of likes that he liked that first smashed burgers.
Yeah. So, so, you know, I think I’m cooking with the wrong heat source. Like I don’t do wood or Hickory or you know, any of that. So, uh, I think that’s like my next, next thing, I gotta jump into
Jay, if you, if you cook, if you cook a steak or burgers with chart. Okay. Charcoal good. Right. And I do like the hardwood charcoal. So I don’t do like charcoal, charcoal. I use the hardwood. There’s definitely a taste difference there. Um, and it burns hotter and longer. Uh, from my experience I could be wrong. People are going to probably bash me. Okay. Whatever. Um, but if you cook with wood, I mean, there’s nothing like, it just, it’s almost like you get the, the flavor of almost smoking
Right. In that,
Even if you’re cooking your steak, you know, like cooking a ribeye or whatever for like three or four minutes per side, you still get that smoky flavor. But Oh, it’s so good. I mean, it, you, you will love it because you like to experiment and you like to, uh, you like to innovate, he likes a challenge. He needs to innovate, has cooking experience.
I love it. I love it. We’ll have the, uh, no, not half, maybe 10% of my subscriptions on YouTube or these grilling cooking channels, you know? Oh man, you can’t watch. I’m hungry. That’s my problem that you can’t absolutely cannot. I’m like, Oh my gosh, it’s 10 at night. I’m going to have a second dinner. I got to go do it. Now
Do this. Give Jay we’re gonna get a J one J one. And then we’ll we’ll we’ll give him one another one to give away for a give away.
Yes, please. It’s nice. I felt, I felt the, uh, the, the, the selfishness creeping up going. I ain’t doing no giveaway.
No, one’s getting that. That’s mine. You know what Jay said? Nobody says out loud, but it was internally. What did he say? So when we said you can use it for yourself or if you’re kind give it away. And this is what Jay said,
That’s why he’s kind of [inaudible].
That’s what he said it internally. Do some awesome giveaway. We’re going to do a collaboration with our shirts. Yeah. Yeah. And wait, Hey, so Jay, before we get off here, I have a couple more things to ask. Number one, I would love to meet you in person. Is there a way that we can come down? Me, Donnie and NACE and do a shop tour with the handsome J Pearson
Dude. That’d be awesome. Always older visitors. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. That’d be sick. Let me lay down some guidelines. Uh, we don’t do masks a week. We ain’t going to bind to that malarkey. I
Like, I like you even better now.
Oh, great. Fantastic. You might leave with COVID. That’s all I’m going to say, but that’s fine. I’m good with that. Yeah. So same here. Uh, and that’s why I, it
James, I can’t tell it these plate plate.
I’m thinking right now. Play it. Well, this one, that’s a big stop. It. The other one
Addicted to best friends. Best friends. Yes. You want to go do karate in the garage? Yup.
Jack, I felt like we just became best friends. NACE.
He took, took him three,
Three sound clips to get there, but I felt like we just became best friends. So that’s awesome. No, so, so when is a good time for you for, uh, for a little visit?
Oh man. Well, here’s the deal. We’re going to be moving our shop in July of next year. So do you want to see the current, which might be old shop or new shop?
I thought you were going to say, here’s the deal. We’re going to be moving our shop. So I’d love to have extra help.
No, that’s that’s what I meant to say internally. Where does that sound clip?
No, uh I’ll. I’ll do, I’ll do now and later
That’s like, we’ll do more for us. Yeah.
That’s what, what you say to your wife? Yeah. I’ll do it now and later. Yeah. You buy, I suck. No, I buy it. You suck. Yeah. That’s what you say. You know what? This is. So you, so Jay’s talking about, you know, uh, basically you got to scale it before, you know, it depends for remembering the brains for thinking, right? Yeah. Uh, you have to know your trajectory in life to know where you want to take your business to work on your business. Not in your business. You got to have pallets for that. You do. Yeah. But, but you have to know who your ideal and likely buyers are. So there’s probably tons of people right here, out there listening. Right. That want to be sucked. They need some sucking. I didn’t know where you’re going with this. Okay. So those are the ideal enlightened buyers that need to be sucked. And so Jay, where can these people that need to be sucked? Find some stuff where they want sucking power. Yeah. They need second power. And J provides that
All your platforms. I will say that sucking isn’t for everyone. Okay. Got it. If it can’t be, if it can’t be bit, Hey, if can’t, if you can’t
Suck it by it. Yes. Yeah.
Vice versa. I can’t.
That makes sense. It does make, since we’re, we’re like we can make t-shirts together. We can do like, [inaudible]
Back. I scratch your back. Because basically when I turn around, you know, I have authority and he’s just a comfort. He’s comfortable making me. That’s not, no,
That was wrong. They got weird. What we just did accomplish though, is we just found the name for that
This episode. What if you can’t bite it, suck it. I like that. The story of Jack is,
Yeah. That’s what I’m saying.
Sorry, Jay Pearson. No, I like it. I like it. So Jay, you know what, we’re going to get you some products. Uh, we’re going to go do a tour and I will send you a message and we’ll figure it out. And Hey Jay, before we get off here, is there anything that you’d like to ask us?
Yeah. I, you know, really quick, I think I just stepped on my own shameless plug. You were asking, where can they find us? And that would be Pearson workholding.com. Uh, YouTube is youtube.com/pearson work holding. And we’re Pearson underscore workholding on Instagram. Go into bit your production. Nice. There we go. Okay. So here’s what I want to ask you guys. Okay. So I just got back from Nashville, Tennessee. It’s a decent place to relocate. I’m sure there’s a lot of different places all across the country where you can relocate, kind of get out of the crazy Ben of California. And, uh, I was actually kind of surprised that it, at least in Nashville, maybe other people have told me it’s kind of the same of the East coast is that there wasn’t like a quarter mile of straight road anywhere. And it was hilly and twisty. Tell me like you guys, like you’re, you’re you’re in the country, right? Like, like the country. Yeah. What does manufacturing look like? Where do you get your customers? Where do you drag race? You know, like tell me all that. Fill me in to a city boy.
Well, um, we to Sydney boy. Okay. So, well, if you live in it, you ain’t kicking it. You know what I’m saying? Dirt. Dirt. Yeah. So, so, um, we’re like on the outskirts of town, we’re about, uh, 30, 45 minutes from anything like any real manufacturing. Um, and so, you know, our dad started this company about 40 years ago. And so we do business with people that we’ve been doing business with for over 30 years. Um, now, before dad passed away, he had this philosophy of, um, it’s like, um, it was like out of sight, out of mind. Uh, and it was this weird, like I’m not going to say it’s a bad perspective. It was just his perspective. Um, and it was like, what people don’t know won’t hurt people type of deal. So he always felt like people were kind of out to get him a little bit, a little bit.
Right. And so there was times where he had a shop in town, he would build this big privacy fence. Right. Um, to protect people from seeing what was happening. It’s not like you couldn’t hear the Haas VF, one ripping through chips in there. You could. So it was just like, they were wondering what was going on in there. Um, but before dad passed away, it was all word of mouth. It was, it was that old school handshake, handshake deal done on a handshake word of mouth. And after we, after dad passed away, there was a point to where me and NACE were like, Hey, listen. Um, the pink account is at this level. Um, that’s not super safe. Let’s figure out what the next move is. Um, and there was also like a transition in like 2009. There was a weird downturn, um, to where in 2013 to 2009 to 2013, like when people got hit, we didn’t get hit right away.
But there was a certain point in there we’re like, Oh, okay. It took us about two years to see what we saw everybody else getting hit with. Um, not that’s good. So that showed us that we had some, uh, that we were a little bit more diversified, I think. And then maybe our customers were a little bit more stable. Um, but when that happened, we realized, Hey, that’s not super safe either. So let’s make sure that we diversify from this point on let’s diversify. And so at that point we actually met one of our business coaches, clay Clark. Um, and we actually interviewed him, his podcast isn’t out yet. It’ll be out soon. Um, and, but he taught us some things that we didn’t know. And so like, you don’t know what you don’t know. Um, and so when he told us it was like knowledge bomb, you know?
And, um, so we realized, Hey, you know, we need to start having someone in the pipeline all the time. It doesn’t matter. Like even with hiring inspiring. Um, even though I may have a full staff today, I need to make sure I have someone in the pipeline for tomorrow because you know, people get pregnant. Uh, people will move on, people move away, people die, people get sick. And so you’ve got to have your pipeline full, whether it’s for employees or whether it’s for customers. So he taught us about this thing about the dream 102 to chase after your ideal unlikely buyer put a, put a hundred, put a thousand, it doesn’t matter what it is, but the more nos you get, the more yeses you’re going to get eventually. And so we started spending money on marketing, you know, going after, you know, pushing SEO on our website, pushing SEO on, uh, you know, on different things.
And also like going after those ideal unlikely buyers. So out here in the country, like everybody here, and everybody here knows who we are and it’s not necessarily something that dad would have wanted. Um, we’ve had to take some probably like borderline inappropriate videos. I don’t think we had too many photos. I don’t think we had to. I think that’s just because we just did it because we had to be the purple cow. Yeah. Have you ever read, read the book purple cow by Seth Godin? Yes. So the reason you see me in NACE do the things we do. It’s not because we’re weird. I mean, we might be a little weird, but because we’re stupid could be a little bit, I mean, but it’s, it’s, it’s standing out in the marketplace and it’s just, it’s just trying to, to draw that attention. I would say machinists, they’re a different breed of people.
If we were in like a professional industry, um, we might not do some things that we do now. A machinist is like a Harley rider in a cellar. Yeah. Had a baby kind of like, they’re, they’re different, but they, but we’ve been in the shop, her whole life. So our humor is their humor. Yeah. Um, so when we do things that mom doesn’t want us to do, we’re like, no, mom they’ll like it. And they do. They always love it because this episode is going to be top hit because it says suck. And when people start doing SEO for suck, we pop up. That’s true because it’s machinists. So we’re going to tie back to Jay’s question is how do we, how to country boys find them. I don’t think you guys ever answered. So, but, but basically we went after we, we developed a, a dream 100 list dream, 1000 lists.
We started going after these people started cold call on them, email on them. And it’s all people around here. Um, but you know, the more we’ve done that the more people have started J we’ve given we’ve given away probably over a thousand t-shirts, um, it’s a lot, that’s a lot of t-shirts and it’s good quality t-shirts. And so like, people will, will call me all the time and say, Hey, I just talked to so-and-so in the airport. And I thought that they might know you, but they have no idea who you are. Is that yeah, we have a lot of t-shirts out there. Um, but it just, that’s just, that’s just, you know, we, we have what we call a three marketing stool, like a three legged marketing stool. So we’ll go after, you know, let’s just say, we’re going to go after this and we’re going to, after this, and we’re going to have to this, those are the three things that we’re going to focus on for a period of time, whether it’s SEO, um, social media, you know, uh, marketing is it’s.
So it just wa w whatever we feel like we need to switch and focus on at that time. And so our coach really helps us on trying to balance those things. Yeah. So to tie in with that, a couple, just one huge notable quotable. If you’re starting your own business is when you’re reaching out to your dream, 100 it’s cry, buy or die. You never stop. You gotta wait. You gotta say it again, cry. Yeah. Buy or die. So you’re gonna reach out to those people until they cry until they your product. So you’re going to, you’re going to call. Yep. You’re gonna email texts and you’re going to text. Yep. Yep. Nope. Not sexy. No, no, no. Do that. They’re going to email and text and then they’re gonna either cry. Yeah. They’re gonna buy it because they feel sorry for you or because they love it.
Yeah. Or they’re going to eat you die, or they’re going to die, you know, say F off. Yeah. That’s what happens. That happens. Sometimes it happens a lot and you’ve got to embrace it. You gotta embrace it. You gotta, you gotta embrace the suck. You gotta embrace this for, for about every hundred nos. You get a yes. Yeah. So, um, and so the more opportunity, the more nos you get, the more opportunities you get for a yes. Um, and so we will go like me and NAISA really been going after new companies and stuff. And so we’ve probably, we’ve gotten several new companies and good companies. And like, you need to put yourself in a position to where you can say no to a bad company, because if you align yourself with a bad company, they will screw you over and over again. And it’s not going to be fun for you.
It might be fun for them. It’s not going to be fun for you. And you just put yourself back in a position that you don’t want to be in. So you want to make sure that you align yourself with a good company that, you know, that has similar interests, similar, uh, uh, morals, um, so that you, you know, that you, you know, you’re going to be safe with that company, because if you don’t like, you know, if you’re making your own products, that’s one thing. But if you’re a job shop, that’s something different. But as far as our job shop in our products, that’s two different companies.
Yeah. So man, thinking back to the period between Oh three and 2010, when I was doing bike parts and then developing pallet systems, I was, I was job shopping. And I remember, uh, vividly of writing the word, no, the word, the phrase, no, thank you. On a purchase order, terrible customer, you know, and they wanted pennies for these parts. They wanted them in two days and, and they, they were like tenths, you know, on the quality. And I’m just like, no, thank you. And I got an ear full from this, you know, I, gosh, there was a, the drew Carey show. Do you guys remember that? You remember that big fat lady
Crazy. No, thank you.
Yeah. That’s that’s this is a purchasing agent I’m dealing with, you know, and I’m just like, no. And she gave me this ear full and I, I remember saying I’m a gentleman, so I’m just going to hang up on you right now without saying a word. And I just hung up and cause I want to just go off on this, this idiot man. That was the best thing I ever did. Did early on in business was firing the worst of my customers. Yeah. So yes.
So this kind of ties it into the beginning. When you asked that Jay, about some stuff, he said he, he wishes or he work on saying no more often, right? Yeah. I think most, if you talk to most entrepreneurs or a person, yeah. They say no, probably like 98% of the time until yes. To the things that they’re willing to do when you first start off. A lot of times, you’re just saying yes to any opportunity you can. Yeah. I mean, but then it’s a at, at, at, uh, at, at some point you have to say no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure have to. And it’s a weird transition and it feels awkward. Yeah. It’s like when Jay had to hang up on that lady to be polite, to watch, you know, drew Carey after I hung up on her.
But you got to do it to grow. All right, Jay, do you have any more questions buddy?
And uh, they’re all related to sucking in Biden. So, but it’s worse. So go on
Jay’s questions. I, you didn’t answer. I didn’t answer. Donnie came down, but, but basically you’re saying you don’t go like a quarter mile without a stop sign where we’re at. You go each way you go, you’re going exactly. One mile. Every stop sign is one mile. It’s also very straight. It’s always straight. It’s like
Also a bit off the beaten path as well. So when I went to visit the shop, uh, one of their, uh, one of their coworkers actually picked me up from the airport to bring me to the shop. And for a moment there, I actually thought it was a joke and I was getting ready to get murdered.
We took a couple turns and it started to look like that movie wrong turn. Yeah. And, uh, you’re, you’re going, you know, pass the corn field, pass a wheat field, pass an old barn. He was like, Hey, no way, Hey, Damon’s living out here,
Dani. Then you pass that house on the corner by the river. And the guy’s in his underwear with a shotgun. Yeah, yeah,
Yeah. You start hearing some, uh, some banjos plants and uh, gets serious.
It’s like, Oh brother, we’re out. No, there’s some weird stuff out here. But once you get out to where we’re at, it’s good.
It’s a good, it’s a nice little piece of hair. You guys got a sweet spot,
What border? But it’s like, you’re crossing the border. Yeah. And then you’re coming back home. That’s where we’re at. Yeah. You go through some stuff. You get, you get home.
It’s definitely J I would say it’s a it’s um, I’ve always grew up in the country. Um, I’ve always been drawn to the city life, but every time I go, I always get brought back. And there’s just something about the, uh, being able to check away and check out from society. Um, having those long roads to just kind of look at nature, wildlife, um, hitting that one, stop sign every mile, not every, you know, 20 feet. It’s just, uh, yeah. It’s, it’s just a, it’s a good peaceful.
J J I think, I think I’m hearing you clearly now. I think I got it. So we’re going to do a t-shirt together, Cindy, some products. And if you need to move, not to Nashville, because Nashville is kind of crazy. Uh, we were just there to meet me and NACE were, um, and this kind of shut down a little bit coming to Florida so I can come work for you. No, no, no, no, no, no. He comes to
Oklahoma. We got elaborate. We got 25
Acres out here. We put Jay right out here by side to us. Yep. Yeah. We got a partnership out here. I believe it. Yeah. Done deal. Nope. I’m going to, I’m going to hold you to that
Handshake. I bite my bite.
We’re not more central in the country is great for distribution. That’s that’s one of the things that kind of kills me, you know, when we have a lot of East coast customers and it’s four to five days, if you’re in Oklahoma
Soccer or both ways East or West, when you can only suck East, I like it. It’s true. You can check when you’re in Oklahoma, North, South. You’re sucking all around three 60. Yeah. There’s a loss of three 60. There’s a lot of growth when they’re sucking. Yeah. So here’s, it comes out here. Partnership. T-shirts boom, sucking. Woo suckage. I’m I’m really looking forward to seeing him to lay down a Smashburger on the grill. I mean to, yeah. All right. Hey, Hey, uh, Jay, send me your shipping information. I’m going to send you the goods. Okay. Sounds great. Awesome, man, man. Thank you very, very much for being on the podcast today. We appreciated it. Uh, do you guys have anything else to say? Nah, man, I’m just a super cool. I’m really thankful.
So we’re going to end this podcast in a boom, which stands for big overwhelming optimistic momentum. You have to bring the boom every day. If you’re going to win Jay, you bring the boom. Three, two, one, boom. Thank you for listening to today’s podcast. Well, you heard it from the man, the myth, the legend, Mr. Jay Pearson, the founder of Pearson. Workholding if you can’t find it, then you should suck it until next time. We’ll see you later.